Seeking life wherever it is expressed.

Is the Jehovah Moses speaks of the Heavenly Father of Jesus?

Is the Jehovah Moses speaks of the Heavenly Father of Jesus?

“You Have Heard it said”

One of Jesus main teachings and actions, something that made Jesus stand out among Teachers was his teaching and demonstration of love not only for friends but also of his enemies.

Jesus said in his famous Sermon on the Mount: “You have heard that it was said, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.’ “But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
“For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
“If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?
“Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Matthew 5:43-48

Was this Love of enemies demonstrated by Jehovah in the books of Moses?

The Flood, here it seems we see Jehovah taking care of the ones he likes

Gen.6:5-13 Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth…..The LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, ……I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, …..But Noah found favor in the eyes of the LORD. ……Then God said to Noah, “The end of all flesh has come before Me; for the earth is filled with violence because of them; and behold, I am about to destroy them with the earth.

Sodom and Gomorrah, here it seems Jehovah takes care of his friends but what about his enemies?

Gen.19:13-24 for we are about to destroy this place, because their outcry has become so great before the LORD that the LORD has sent us to destroy it.” Lot went out and spoke to his sons-in-law, who were to marry his daughters, and said, “Up, get out of this place, for the LORD will destroy the city ” But he appeared to his sons-in-law to be jesting. …….Then the LORD rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven,

Mt Sinai and The Children of Israel, here it seems a very angry God who needs a man to talk him out of destroying even his friends.

Deuteronomy 9:13-14,18-23“The LORD spoke further to me, saying, ‘I have seen this people, and indeed, it is a stubborn people. ‘Let Me alone, that I may destroy them and blot out their name from under heaven; and I will make of you a nation mightier and greater than they.’ “I fell down before the LORD, as at the first, forty days and nights; I neither ate bread nor drank water, because of all your sin which you had committed in doing what was evil in the sight of the LORD to provoke Him to anger. “For I was afraid of the anger and hot displeasure with which the LORD was wrathful against you in order to destroy you, but the LORD listened to me that time also. “The LORD was angry enough with Aaron to destroy him; so I also prayed for Aaron at the same time. ….”Again at Taberah and at Massah and at Kibroth-hattaavah you provoked the LORD to wrath. “

Joshua and the Promised Land, here it seems Jehovah is a God who hardens hearts so the people would fight and be destroyed.

Joshua.11:19-20 There was not a city which made peace with the sons of Israel except the Hivites living in Gibeon; they took them all in battle. For it was of the LORD to harden their hearts, to meet Israel in battle in order that he might utterly destroy them, that they might receive no mercy, but that he might destroy them, just as the LORD had commanded Moses.

The words in the books of Moses do not seem to display the Heavenly Father that Jesus displays.

The Command of The Lord is –
Lev.24:17-23 ‘If a man takes the life of any human being, he shall surely be put to death. ….. fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth; just as he has injured a man, so it shall be inflicted on him. …… for I am the LORD your God.'” Then Moses spoke to the sons of Israel, and they brought the one who had cursed outside the camp and stoned him with stones. Thus the sons of Israel did, just as the LORD had commanded Moses.

The expression of the Father through Jesus says – “You have heard that it was said, ‘AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.’ “But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. “If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat also. “Whoever forces you to go one mile, go with him two. “Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you. Matthew 5:38-42

Did Moses or whoever wrote Leviticus misunderstand or misquote “The Lord” ? Jesus is quoted as saying “You have heard it was said” “But I say” then he also says he only speaks his Fathers words not his own.

Was Jesus correcting a misquote?

So Jesus told them, “My message is not my own; it comes from God who sent me. Anyone who wants to do the will of God will know whether my teaching is from God or is merely my own.
John 7:16

The disciples of Jesus agree with Jesus

Peter writes – “Do not return evil with evil, or insults with insults. Instead, pray for blessing. You were called in order to inherit blessing,” 1Peter 3:9.
Paul writes – Never pay back evil with more evil. Do things in such a way that everyone can see you are honorable. Rom.12:17

Now “The Lord” says – Mal.3:6 “For I, the LORD, do not change; therefore you, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed.

Now if Moses followed the Lord Jonah interacted with I don’t think we have any conflict. The “Lord” of Jonah (as recorded in the book of Jonah) is a loving and forgiving Lord that seems more in line with the Father that Jesus expressed.

It does not seem that the “Lord” described in the 5 books of Moses always depict or express the non changing Heavenly Father of Jesus.
Some may say “It was a different time or dispensation” that may be true for man but not for God. God is not affected by time – He is the same yesterday, today and forever. At least this is true of “Jesus Christ

The turn or burn message sometimes preached today seems appropriate to the Lord of Moses but not the merciful Heavenly Father of Jesus Christ. Moses himself seems to display more the attributes of the Heavenly Father of Jesus than the Lord of Moses does.

Jesus said “If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him.” John 14:7

The Father of Jesus was not well known when Jesus walked the earth. It was the Law that was read, studied and known.
Then they hurled insults at him and said, “You are this fellow’s disciple! We are disciples of Moses! John 9:28

Of the Law Jesus said: Moses gave you the law, but none of you obeys it! In fact, you are trying to kill me. John 7:19

Notice he says “Moses gave you the Law” not “My Father gave you the Law”

In the recorded words of Jesus written by John you can feel the desperate exasperation of Jesus toward a people he loves that simply won’t listen. Here is a people who search the writings of other men instead of receiving the Father’s Love. These people simply refuse to know the Father for themselves they fight among themselves about the meaning of different prophets words and refuse to have an encounter of their own.

“You search the Scriptures because you think they give you eternal life. But the Scriptures point to me! Yet you refuse to come to me to receive this life. “Your approval means nothing to me, because I know you don’t have God’s love within you. For I have come to you in my Father’s name, and you have rejected me. Yet if others come in their own name, you gladly welcome them. No wonder you can’t believe! For you gladly honor each other, but you don’t care about the honor that comes from the one who alone is God. “Yet it isn’t I who will accuse you before the Father. Moses will accuse you! Yes, Moses, in whom you put your hopes. If you really believed Moses, you would believe me, because he wrote about me. But since you don’t believe what he wrote, how will you believe what I say?” John 5:39-47

Jesus knocking on the door of a Bible study

So, Is the Jehovah Moses speaks of the Heavenly Father of Jesus?
My answer is NO and Yes. Moses in some ways knew and expressed the Heavenly Father but at other times, like many of us, he expressed the “law and thoughts of Moses” not the Law of the Heavenly Father. Jesus expressed his Fathers Law in these words ‘You must love the LORD your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind.” and “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Matt.22:37-39.

So when reading Moses rejoice when he writes about your Heavenly Father but remember just because Moses says “you have heard it said” it does not make it the words or actions of your Heavenly Father.


10 responses

  1. alexsm1

    Good job on your thought and attention to scripture in your blog. I hope that in all your Bible reading the Holy Spirit will move you to do great things for Him.

    One thought I had in regards to Christ in his earthly ministry telling us to love our enemies and your interpretation of the O.T. that God obviously didn’t love His enemies, but rather killed them with a flood.

    1. Christ in his earthly ministry was teaching/showing humans how to be the children of God, not teaching them how to be God. God has the power and the righteousness to judge. We do not. He destroyed his enemies not because they were His enemy, but because of their sin.

    2. It took Moses 120 years to build the ark prior to the flood. During that 120 years Moses and his 3 sons preached daily to all that would listen. For 120 yrs God (through Moses) tried to convert their souls and none would turn from their wickedness. I perceive a very loving God that gave this particular generation 120 yrs to repent prior to punishment.

    This is just a couple of my own thoughts. Thanks for reading.

    July 30, 2010 at 1:36 pm

    • Seeker

      Thank you for your comments. I guess I would not characterize what I was attempting to say as “God obviously didn’t love His enemies” but more questioning some of the old testament writings. I believe that God the Father does love his enemies and when He was quoted in the O.T. as saying an eye for and eye and a tooth or a tooth – I question if God the Father actually said that.

      I do agree that Christ was not teaching us how to be God – but I think it was possible that he was demonstrating how a man can live by the spirit of God.

      It did take Noah many years to build the ark – and during that time it says that he preached to men. Jesus living by the life of his Father preached and did not end up getting to many converts but instead of destroying those who rejected him he suffered and died for them. If this is the way of the Father – maybe there are some things about the flood we just don’t understand.

      Its one thing to love a God because He loves you its a very different thing to love a God because if you don’t He will destroy you.

      July 30, 2010 at 8:42 pm

  2. I enjoyed what you had to say… The Bible is a record of events that happened in the lives of folks… some of it is God speaking and acting…. some of it is people speaking and acting. I know the tendency is to think that every word is infallible, and sometimes we’re so influenced by our own mindsets and “theological position” that we really miss what is really being said. The only thing I know for sure is that Jesus said the Scriptures spoke of Him and revealed Him… I look for Him in there and I know the Spirit of God who is the Anointing within me will teach me all things.. sometimes it’s from the Bible.. other times from elsewhere. Faith comes by hearing and hearing from the Preacher… who is God speaking to us in any number of different forms (including people)… I like the argument you put forth.
    Something to ponder. It’s easy to judge and eat from the wrong tree.. but the cool thing about Truth is that it doesn’t fade away.. it reproduces and carries on. Religion is dead. The ‘hearing of God’ is Life… expressed through Christ.
    … thanks for sharing it! YourBroRon

    July 30, 2010 at 11:50 pm

  3. Jesus ‘refudiated’ Moses in points. Yes. Opinions are scattered as to just what that means. You, however, may inadvertently set a precedent for doubting whatever one dislikes in the OT. “Maybe that was just Moses.”

    A caution, to your analysis: is this explanation *necessary*? Again, where Jesus did comment on Moses, we have grounds for reinterpretation, at least, of those parts of the law. But your eagerness to throw out divine authorship of the Torah is not something I think Jesus (or the Gospel writers who “quoted” Jesus) would have agreed with.

    August 3, 2010 at 12:40 am

  4. Seeker

    Bill, “divine authorship of the Torah” that’s a scary thought. Divine influence of some men and women who were talked about in the story, great! Authorship? I don’t know if anybody really truly believes that and if they do they don’t act… like it. I think those who have Christ as their life can recognize the stories of brothers and sisters within the scriptures, who have Christ as life.To claim the complied writings called the Bible are ALL from God (divine authorship) has either inadvertently or purposely placed the authority and hope in understanding a book and not in “intimately knowing” the Christ in us. At least this is my “scattered opinion” at this point in time – but to each his own.

    August 3, 2010 at 1:42 pm

  5. By “divine authorship of the Torah”, I mean the idea that God dictated the Law to Moses. Literally, the Torah. For example, see Exodus 21:1,24.

    Yes, there are scary thoughts in the Pentateuch. Please don’t try to explain them away by making Jesus discount Moses’ authority from G-D. That’s historically implausible, to say the least.

    August 3, 2010 at 2:35 pm

  6. Seeker

    Bill, The authorship of the Torah is very much in question by many historians over many years. The Orthodox view is that Moses wrote it. Another view is that it was not written or at least compiled in its present form until Babylonian captivity. I am guessing you have heard of the Wellhausen hypothesis? The idea that a book could contain mis-quotes and mis-representations of God and his words is not a “wild idea”. Where would one get the idea that the entire Torah is a dictation of the direct words of God? If it is true then His thoughts really changed from when he spoke to Moses to when he spoke through Jesus.
    Jesus did not just tweak the statement of an eye for an eye he completely opposed a direct quote of God. You say: “Opinions are scattered as to just what that means” Ok, so what does it means in your opinion?
    I don’t fear asking and exploring the question it does not change God at all. The idea of a God who can change his thoughts so drastically does not settle well with me.

    August 3, 2010 at 4:31 pm

  7. Chris, forgive me, but you still don’t get what I’m objecting to. I understand well enough what critics have said about the OT. What the OT is or isn’t has got *nothing* to do with my point.

    My point is this: It seems to me your argument depends on what Jesus (and/or Matthew) thought about the OT. Personally, I don’t think either of them had read, or was thinking along the lines of, Wellhausen.

    What do *I* think Jesus meant? Shoot, I’m ducking that question completely. But I’d recommend you look at J.P. Meier’s 4th volume – A Marginal Jew: Law and Love. I’ve not finished the whole thing yet, but it’s right on topic, and very challenging.

    I’m sorry if certain ideas don’t settle well with you. Maybe they aren’t supposed to, but that doesn’t mean you have to find explanations for them. I presume by now you know as well as I do – that’s just a part of what dealing with God feels like.

    August 3, 2010 at 5:15 pm

  8. Seeker

    Bill, you say: It seems to me your argument depends on what Jesus (and/or Matthew) thought about the OT.

    What do *I* think Jesus meant? Shoot, I’m ducking that question completely.

    Your not ducking your answer, your ducking your basis for the answer.
    You have already stated your belief that the Torah is a dictation of God’s direct word and I obviously would disagree. I use the quote of Jesus, eye for an eye as a basis for my thought but you have yet to provide the basis for your thought.
    “I’m sorry if certain ideas don’t settle well with you.” Don’t project Bill – I am the one that wrote the paper that you have the problem with.

    August 3, 2010 at 6:56 pm

  9. You really need to learn how to read. My objection wasn’t that I think the Torah was dictated by God. My objection was that I think the Jews taught as if that were so. Me? I like to think he did, yeah. But the skeptical opinions of OT scholars make me withhold judgment a bit. A bit. Anyway, I think you’ve jumped way too quickly to a conclusion that’s not very firm.

    Three seconds left in the fight. Here comes the bell…

    August 3, 2010 at 7:51 pm

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